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Egypt To Confront ‘Threats of Atheists, Baha’is and Shiites’ With New ‘Special Groups’

Egypt To Confront ‘Threats of Atheists, Baha’is and Shiites’ With New ‘Special Groups’

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In a meeting held Tuesday at the headquarters of the Ministry of Religious Endowments in Downtown Cairo, Minister Mohamed Mokhtar Goma’a stated that he plans to form special groups dedicated to spreading awareness of the “threats” of atheism and the Baha’i and Shi’a religions, in addition to social issues such as drug addiction and murder.

The discussion included delegates from different governorates and ministers from various departments whom Minister Goma’a called upon to collect statistics on aspects such as the current number of mosques in their areas. Once data is received, ministry spokesman Mohamed Abdel Razek stated that groups will be formed and begin to hold monthly gatherings until Ramadan begins.

“The groups will include one Qur’an reciter, one chanter and two speakers,” Abdel Razek told Daily News Egypt. The meeting also discussed ways to regulate mosque employees, and outlined a system for every mosque to have a minimum of one worker. The meeting also considered the upcoming Religious Speech Freedom Forum to be held this May, and reviewed their proposal regarding what topics should be examined. The conference will be deliberating laws regarding religious speech in Egypt after the Muslim Brotherhood, including regulations to eradicate Brotherhood preachers.

Atheism and freedom of religious speech has been a hot-button issue in Egypt after the ousting of the Muslim Brotherhood in 2013. In January, 21-year-old engineering student Karim Al-Banna was arrested on charges of being an atheist and “insulting Islam” on Facebook. He faces a three-year prison sentence if his current appeal does not succeed. Last week, the Ministry of Religious Endowments stated that it will begin to undergo heavier surveillance of private schools with religious associations, and restructure Muslim Brotherhood affiliated institutions. Since 2011, out of over 40 accused and tried for charges of defamation, 27 have been convicted in court, according to the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights.

When President Sisi called for a “religious revolution” in January, the whole world felt a rumble of hope at the possibility that religiously moderate reform in parts of the Middle East was in the horizon. Since Egypt is home to Sunni Islam’s leading authority, Al Azhar, the statement by President Sisi held immense potential. Egyptian Atheists, however, beg to differ.

“Given the current nature of religious speech in Egypt and the organization of meetings such as the Ministry of Religious Endowments’, I do not believe that outright Atheism will be accepted anytime soon. Egypt needs to work on its issues with general freedom of speech first before we can start including religion or any other social issue,” said one Egyptian Atheist who would rather not be named.

The problem also affects Egypt’s top source of revenue: tourism. Tourists tend to avoid countries where the threat of arrest exists merely at the chance that a passer-by may hear you and a friend speaking English, or discussing politics and religion. Egypt has a chance to do what other nations are rarely able to- start over. Given the recent push towards modernization and globalization, these social issues need to be addressed, and equality actively strived for.

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  • vacuumation

    Embarrassing, absolutely embarrassing. The educated people of Egypt deserve a government that truly represents them, but instead even after the ‘Arab Spring’ are far away from that reality. Intolerance towards religious minorities and secular people. Christian Copts, who are indigenous to those lands long before Islam, continue to be unprotected from the savages.

  • Cesar

    Please get your facts about Bahai as i got mine about Islam in Cuba 60 years ago. Since then I defend Islam even in front of not very knowledgeable ‘muslims’ .

    • Badi19

      This is what Mr. Baha’u’llah has to say. Please get your facts.

      “Whoever denies this apparent exalted luminous grace (meaning Baha’ism),
      it is worthy that he asks his state from his mother and he will soon be
      returned to the bottom of hell,” `Abd al-Ḥamīd Ishrāq Khāwarī,
      Mā’idiy-i āsimānī, vol. 4, p. 355

      “Whoever has the enmity of this servant (meaning Bahā’u’llāh) in his
      heart, certainly Satan has entered their mother’s bed,” `Abd al-Ḥamīd
      Ishrāq Khāwarī, Ganj-i shāygān, p. 79.

      • Donald Schellberg

        None of the works I have read by Baha’u’llah have ever stated this and use this style. Furthermore, Baha’is don’t believe in Satan as a separate force but rather the absence of God. It is the insistent self, the ego, the prevents the believer turning toward God.

        • Badi19

          Dear Donald,
          You cannot deny what you have “NOT READ”. Main issue with the Baha’is of Western Countries is that they do not understand Persian / Arabic so as to understand original stuffs written by Mr. Bab and Mr. Baha’u’llah. You are dependent only on what has been officially translated and provided to you by the illegitimate (Guardian-less) UHJ.

          • Donald Schellberg

            Translations, especially those of Holy Books, have to be done with care otherwise the meaning is distorted, sometimes drastically. If you could give me the link in Persian, I can review it with my Persian friends.

          • Badi19
          • Badi19

            Dear Donald,

            Awaiting the explanation from you. I hope you may have met them today as today is the day of Ridvan.

          • Donald Schellberg

            I can’t translate it because it is an image file. I was going to an initial translation with google translator. In any case we have kind of hijacked this thread which was supposed to deal with human rights in Egypt. You have your path and I have mine. Peace my friend.

          • Badi19

            Dear Donald,

            Google translate is not meant for these type of Jobs. Please do ask your Persian friend to help you. I have much stuff for you if your Persian friend really helps you.

            You can also check this and get this confirmed from your Persian friend.

            Baha’u’llah Refers to Those that Deny Him as Pigs, Donkeys, and Dogs.

            http://www.bahaibahai.com/eng/index.php/articles?id=86

          • Donald Schellberg

            I know I said I wouldn’t post, but I did find one of the quotes in the English Tablet, Gems of Divine Mysteries. It is

            “Encompassed as I am at this time by the dogs of the earth and the beasts of every land, concealed as I remain in the hidden habitation of Mine inner Being, forbidden as I may be from divulging that which God hath bestowed upon Me of the wonders of His knowledge, the gems of His wisdom, and the tokens of His power, yet am I loath to frustrate the hopes of one who hath approached the sanctuary of grandeur, sought to enter within the precincts of eternity, and aspired to soar in the immensity of this creation at the dawning of the divine decree. I shall therefore relate unto thee certain truths from among those which God hath vouchsafed unto Me”

            In this paragraph he is not referring to people that deny him but rather to the corrupt and greedy Persian and Turkish officials who used the persecution of Baha’i as an excuse to seize their assets. For those officials that were honest, He had praise for them, even though they were charged with enforcing his prison sentence. Here is a quote

            “That which was done by his late Excellency (Mushíru’d-Dawlih)—may God exalt his station—was not actuated by his friendship towards this Wronged One, but rather was prompted by his own sagacious judgment, and by his desire to accomplish the service he secretly contemplated rendering his Government. I testify that he was so faithful in his service to his Government that dishonesty played no part, and was held in contempt, in the domain of his activities. It was he who was responsible for the arrival of these wronged ones in the Most Great Prison (‘Akká). As he was faithful, however, in the discharge of his duty, he deserveth Our commendation.”

          • Dawnbreaking

            In the article, it has been mentioned that “He referred to his enemies as dogs and beasts” not those that denied him. Baha’u’llah’s a perfect exemplar, he teaches you to call your enemies dogs and those who deny him pigs and donkeys.

          • Donald Schellberg

            Not really, I went to the site the Badi19 specified and found one of the passages mentioned in an offical translation and it really doesnt say that. Anyway, here is an example of how Baha’u’llah treated people that did not accept his station.

            “As He was approaching the dungeon, and old and decrepit woman was seen to emerge from the midst of the crowd, with a stone in her hand, eager to cast it at the face of Bahá’u’lláh. Her eyes glowed with a determination and fanaticism of which few women of her age were capable. Her whole frame shook with rage as she stepped forward and raised her hand to hurl her missile at Him. “By the Siyyidu’sh-Shuhada, I adjure you,” she pleaded, as she ran to overtake those into whose hands Bahá’u’lláh had been delivered, “give me a chance to fling my stone in his face!” “Suffer not this woman to disappointed,” were Bahá’u’lláh’s words to His guards, as He saw her hastening behind Him. “Deny her not what she regards as a meritorious act in the sight of God.”

          • Dawnbreaking

            Well, he does say that. In fact the quote is taken from the official translation that you saw.

            As for the story you mentioned, just to show you how ridiculous it is: ISIS believes that cutting innocent peoples heads is a “meritorious act in the sight of God”. If we were to take Baha’u’llah as an exemplar, we should let them do it and stop people who are trying to prevent them.

          • Donald Schellberg

            Badi,

            I did go to the link and I saw the reference. The passage was in Persian and google translator was terrible but I did recognize the name of the person who the tablet was directed to. His name was Shaykh Abdu’l-Husayn and is mentioned extensively in the Epistle to the Son of the Wolf. He is denominated as the “wolf” for the following reason.

            From wikipedia:

            The brothers were merchants, and participated in a trading network with theAfnán (relatives of the Báb), who had a vast and profitable network stretching from Hong Kong to the Caucasus as well as Dutchman Johan Colligan.[1] The two brothers were well known to be selfless, upright and kindly men. Part of their success as merchants has been attributed to their record of honest and upright transactions.

            When they asked for the money which the Imám owed them, he stalled, and began to find ways of evading the payment. He met with Shaykh Muhammad-Baqir, another influential Islamic leader, and they created a plan to destroy the two of them. They approached Sultan-Mas’ud Mirza, the governor of Isfahan, and he quickly agreed to have them thrown in jail, on the grounds that they were Bahá’ís.

            The Ulama then decided that the brothers would likely be set free due to their innocence. They then decided to ensure their death before departing for Tehran. They used their power as religious leaders to encourage over 50 other divines, each with his own crowd of rioters, to approach the house of the governor and demand the death of the brothers, chanting “Oh for our Religion!”

            The governor argued with the Ulama that the two brothers were not guilty of any treasonable act and had done nothing hostile to the State. He refused to give orders for their execution. One of the Ulama then offered to kill them with his own hands. A large sum of money was offered to the governor, which he accepted. Before the orders could be carried out, a crowd broke into the prison holding them and dragged them into the street, where they were torn apart.

            Rope were fastened to the corpses, and they were then dragged around the city and left at the gallows, where people continued to throw stones at them. At the close of the day, their bodies were taken to an archway, which was brought down over them. The date was March 17, 1879.[2] They were eventually buried in the Takht-i-Fulad cemetery.

          • Dawnbreaking

            So since all the stuff you wrote happened, Baha’u’llah was justified in calling the dude a pig and another dude a donkey?!!!

          • Donald Schellberg

            I can’t read the section about your quotes until I speak with my Persian friends, so I can’t say anything about it. But I do know that Baha’u’llah did refer to a Shiite Cleric in Isfahan as the wolf because, among his many crimes, he had two innocent brothers murdered, so he wouldn’t have to pay the debt he owned them and so he could seize their wealth. And I have no problem with that because the man was a thief and murderer. In the same way I have no problem calling Hitler or Stalin monsters because they killed millions of innocent people. Courtesy has its limits. A quote from the New Testatment, “And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. 13And He said to them, “It is written, ‘MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER’; but you are making it a ROBBERS’ DEN.”

          • Dawnbreaking

            Courtesy has limits?! So I shouldn’t be surprised if a Baha’i calls me a pig, donkey, or dog then? Huh? When someone tells his followers to be like this: “Verily I say, the tongue is for mentioning what is good, defile it not with unseemly talk. God hath forgiven what is past. Henceforward everyone should utter that which is meet and seemly, and should refrain from slander, abuse and whatever causeth sadness in men.” (Baha’u’llah)

            He shouldn’t go around calling people pigs and donkeys.

          • Dawnbreaking

            The translation is correct. You should ask yourself why aren’t these quotes ever translated into English?

          • Donald Schellberg

            Actually the translation is obviously bad because the Engish is completely wrong.

          • Dawnbreaking

            The English sounds funny in one or two sections because that is how Baha’u’llah said it in Farsi and Arabic. It also sounds funny and strange in Arabic and Farsi: typical Baha’u’llah prose.

          • Donald Schellberg

            Actually, it is bad. If you compare the prose with H-NET with U Michigan translations by professors who are not Baha’i, you can see the difference, your translations were done by a person who speaks Arabic and Farsi well, but doesn’t speak English well. There was a protestant minister who first translated the Aqdas into English. It was terrible(his issue was the reverse, his Farsi was terrible). For example he used the word sunrise place instead of dayspring. It was a real hack job. Just because you know both languages doesn’t mean you can translate a literary work, especially a spiritual book. I know Spanish and English but I would not be able to translate Don Quixote. As far as these passages not being available in English, some are available as provisional translations on the H-NET site, official translations, however, take much longer because they are done by a group of people.

          • Dawnbreaking

            As far as I’m concerned the translation is accurate and even if you disagree it is fairly obvious what Baha’u’llah was saying.

            Funny you should refer to the professors on h-net. You do remember what happened to one of those professors (ehem professor Juan cole) when he translated the Tablet of the Maiden where Baha’u’llah narrates how he exposed the breast of a maiden? This is what the UHJ said, Google it:
            “The translation of the Tablet which you have is far from adequate”

            You see my dear friend, It is a standard Baha’i attitude to label translations that expose what shouldn’t have been exposed as inadequate/inaccurate/bad/terrible.

            Sorry, but your claims about the translation being bad hold no water.

          • Terry1919

            ahhh… we have a Covenant-Breaker Badi19 is a Covenant-Breaker… I will ignore all future posts

          • Badi19

            That is best for you !!! And that is why ex-Baha’is call it a Cult. I am a Covenant Poker for the most Holey Covenant.

            Check this out :

            Why I Know Baha’u’llah Isn’t a Manifestation of God… (by http://www.exbahai.com)
            http://bahaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/why-i-know-bahaullah-isnt-manifestation.html

      • Donald Schellberg

        Badi, actually that is not quite correct. The quote you cited is a poor translation of a sentence taken out of context and interpreted in a literal way. The same methodology is used by Rabbis to disprove the station of Christ, or for Christian Ministers to deny that Mohammed was a Prophet of God. It is actually the same methodology that Atheists use to disprove the validity of any religion.

        • Badi19

          Please provide the correct translation and correct context. Thank you.

      • Terry1919

        Mister Bahá’u’lláh??? you do not sound like a Bahá’í… I suggest sir you get you facts straight before you look foolish….

        • Badi19

          Lol. This is my way of calling Mr. Hosein Ali NARI. And that is true I am no more a Baha’i.

  • Donald Schellberg

    One of the basic Baha’i laws is obedience to the law of the land, non participation in partisan politics, and strict non-violence in all cases. There were 700,000 Baha’is in Iran and despite 35 years of oppression, the Baha’is have remained peaceful and forebearing. The Baha’i Faith is not about strife and struggle but rather peace and unity.

    All religions when then begin are considered cults. In fact Christianity was nicknamed the Cult of the Nazarean by the Romans and the Jews in the first and second century. Mohammed was considered a lunatic by the non-believers in his time.

    As far as teaching the Baha’i Faith, we all do it, but not to increase our numbers. We consider the Bab to be the Mahdi and Baha’ullah to be the return of Christ(Isa). It is our duty to God to tell people about this. If they accept it that is fine, if they reject we leave them to God.

    • Badi19

      If Baha’is are put to prisons for their beliefs then how is it that there are only 100 Baha’is in Iranian prisons? Why not in 1000s. How many others have gone to prisons and released? Why were they released? Did they recanted their beliefs? How many Baha’i students have been expelled from the university for Believing in Mr. Baha’u’llah? How many are still studying? Why not they expelled? Please provide the numbers with verifiable authentic proofs. Also please provide the proof for 700,000 figure. Baha’is have always played with numbers. They have always exaggerated their statistics to make people believe that it is a real religion and very fast growing while the fact is contrary to that.

      Please check this link. It has Baha’i statistics compared with official Government census of various countries.

      http://bahaicensusindia.blogspot.co.uk/

      Again it should be clear for the readers that there is no unity among Baha’is there are more than 17 sects in Baha’i faith. The readers can look into the following websites for other Baha’i sects. All these sects call each other as “Covenant Breakers” (Kafir).

      Orthodox Baha’is :
      http://www.orthodoxbahai.com

      BUPC Baha’is :
      http://www.uhj.net

      Free Baha’is :
      http://singaporebahais.blogspot.co.uk

      Unitarian Baha’is :
      http://www.unitarianbahai.org/

      if requested I can provide more links.

      Here is a video to know more about various Baha’i sects :

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYnjWvjHf1o

      • SirTerrance Murphy

        You are full of it these are all lies Bahais are not a sect .

  • Badi19

    Recently Baha’i faith is very active in Egypt. Although there are very few Baha’is in Egypt but they are working hard to increase their figures. The NSA of Baha’is of Egypt was formed recently and earlier they used to have a “Core Group” functioning somewhat like the “Yaran” in Iran.

    The Egyptians have always been kind to these people but what they have given to Egypt is Strife and Struggle and tried to divide the Egyptian Society ( check this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW810kbcIGs ) which is bounded with unity, peace, love and kindness.

    I would like to very humbly deny many points that my friend David Schellberg states in his comment here – about Baha’is. There are many Baha’is on the Internet working for the Baha’i Internet Agency (BIA) and spreading misinformation and trying to deceive innocent people.

    1) Baha’is do not obey the Laws of the Land. One of the reason they are persecuted in Iran is not obeying the laws of the land. There are currently about 100 Baha’is in Iranian Prisons all for not obeying the laws. In India they have created problems, in Yemen, in Azerbaijan, in Uzbekistan and also in Indonesia. In Egypt they were trying to convert innocent Egyptians to their Cult through “Spiritual and Moral Class”. They call it Ruhi Classes through which they bring the “Wider Society” near their cult.

    2) The history of Babi, Baha’i and Azali faiths is full of Violence. Mr. Donald is presenting a very “Rosy picture” contrary to the Reality. See the website of Azalis to read about the crimes of Baha’u’llah and his followers : http://www.bayanic.com .

    3) Baha’i faith Wrongly claims that it is the only World Religion which has no Sects. This is totally wrong. It is not a world religion and it is divided into many sects. The readers can google “Baha’i Census” and see how Baha’is play with numbers when it comes for them to present their cult as a “World Religion”. About Baha’i sects please check : http://www.thesectsofbahais.com

    4) Baha’is believe that Islam is dead and decayed. Prophet Mohammed is the Last messenger of “Adamic Cycle”. They have concocted a new theory of “Cycles” and they claim that Baha’u’llah is the First prophet of this “New Cycle”. In fact their scripture don’t even uses the word “Prophet” for this man who claims himself to be the “Glory of God or Baha’u’llah”. Sometimes he calls himself as “God”, and his followers call him “Manifestation of God”. They believe Baha’u’llah (Mr. Hosein Ali Nari) is the sender of Prophets and many such claims that are totally against logic and wisdom.

    5) Baha’is do not defend Islam. They abuse every religion From Judaism to Islam. They have not even spared Hinduism. This is the reason why Israeli government do not permit the Baha’is to teach their cult to Israeli citizens.

    6) Most intelligent government do not give Baha’is 100% freedom. At least they keep a watch on their activities. They all know that Baha’is aim to establish a World Government which will be ruled from Haifa, Israel – their universal headquarter.

    For more information regarding Baha’i cult please check :
    http://bahaicultfaq.blogspot.com
    http://bahaism.blogspot.com
    http://bahaiculture.blogspot.com

    • D.

      “Baha’ii cult”??? You keep saying Bahaaii cult and actually you are the one who is misinformed. Bahaism is a religion just like any other religion in the world, just like mine and yours. It’s not because it doesn’t agree or go with yours that you should think you have the entitlement to call it a cult and spread information saying they are manipulating poor little people in EGYPT and trying to convert them to their Bahaaii “cults”. They have no interest whatsoever in spreading ideas or any interest in grabbing attention to them. They are living peacefully and their only mistake and curse is being present in an intolerant country like EGYPT. If anything, it’s the majority religions that are spreading “beliefs” and ideas and creating their own little cults with whatever interpretation and idea that comes to mind. Why does nobody talk about them and blame them. Yareit we focus on progressive ideas that will actually get us somewhere in life rather than trying to obliterate any other person who we just don’t understand and dislike without any real proof. This isn’t what egypt needs at all. Egypt needs to move forward and a HUGE part of moving forward is focusing on what’s important, not what will take us back 1000 years.

      • Badi19

        It is a cult. There is no freedom in this so called “World Religion” see this link for more info for why I call it a cult. And not only me many people who knows this “Religion” call it a cult. See this link from a renowned Ex-Baha’i Scholar Frederick Glaysher : https://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

        Please keep yourself well informed before you blindly support any NWO cult.

        I am myself an Ex-Baha’i with more than 20 years of experience with this “Good People”.

        And this “New Religion” cannot take you forward 1000 years because it needs to first create unity among the People of Baha (Mr. Hossein Ali Nari – who is God Manifested).

        Please go and check the links and put your questions here. Thank you.

        • naryan

          It isn’t a cult. You obviously don’t even know what the word “cult” means.
          The fact that the Bahá’í Faith is a monotheistic religion *alone* means it’s not a cult.
          Cults worship objects or people, not an intangible, unknowable God. I see that 20 years experience didn’t get you too far.
          That alone should be a heavy enough hit to your credibility to know you’ve got nothing but lies regarding the Bahá’í Faith.
          “Not only me, many people” “There is no freedom in this so called World Religion”.

          Such a shame you or any of these other “many people” can’t provide a single reason why. There’s not a fact to be had in any of your comments actually, not even purportedly. How odd.

          • Badi19

            It is a cult. Please check this link :
            http://bahaism.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/how-bahai-faith-is-cult.html

            One of the Ex-Baha’i who keeps soft corner sincerely writes thus :
            I cannot truly characterize the Baha’i Faith as a “cult”, though in my opinion there are strong social controls in place by the Baha’i Administration. Those controls filter down to the individuals who are afraid of openly questioning the decisions of that administration for fear of being labeled a “covenant breaker”. Which is tantamount to being excommunicated from the community. The leadership has used this effectively since the beginnings of the religion to “purge the ranks of the believers”. Once a person has been declared a covenant breaker, the Baha’i community shuns that person and contact with such an individual could cause “spiritual contamination” of the “Cause” as it is referred to. There are parallels in the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormon groups, as I understand it.

            But I and many other Ex-Baha’is believe it to be cult. And many have had gone through De-Programming therapy after living this cult.

            Check this out :
            http://bahaism.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/deprogramming-from-bahai-world-faith.html

          • naryan

            So let’s break down your claims shall we?

            Aside from starting every single comment with the exact same four words (“It is a cult”) you still haven’t provided any facts, only links to other baseless claims, or references to these mysterious “people” you keep talking about who purportedly agree with you, or who you claim feel a certain way about it.
            You don’t seem to understand that even if your one ex-Bahá’í acquaintances really does feel that way about it, it doesn’t make it true. You seem to be having trouble with how facts work on a fundamental level.

            You claim that other people are “afraid” to question decisions.
            We believe that the decisions are made by those more capable than ourselves, a concept that seems alien to you, that’s why we follow them, not because we’re afraid. And even if one of these imaginary people does feel afraid, that *still* doesn’t mean there’s something to be afraid of. You’re about three levels away from a rational argument.

            If we truly and strongly don’t agree, you can make yourself an ex-Bahá’í instantaneously, with no social consequences whatsoever besides not being allowed to attend certain Bahá’í meetings and not being allowed to contribute to the Bahá’í fund. Becoming an ex-Bahá’í is not the same as being a covenant breaker.
            If anyone actually did the things necessary to become a covenant breaker, most sane people would socially “excommunicate” them in their own way regardless. Who is friends with someone who regularly and openly attacks their beliefs? Give me a break.

            “But I and many other Ex-Baha’is believe it to be cult.” Yeah I can see that you believe it, thanks, but again your feelings don’t dictate reality. If any of these other “many people” feel like openly having that opinion without the apparent need for you as a representative mouthpiece, I’d like to hear it.

            Regarding your “cult” claim, all anyone who knows literally anything about the Bahá’í Faith would have to do is open a dictionary to prove your claims false.
            Your comments are repetitive and mechanical. It’s clear you post similarly dishonest comments tens if not hundreds of times a day. What exactly did the Bahá’í Faith do to you that made you filled with so much invigorating anger and hate? Nothing, I’m willing to bet. You just seem to have a need to destroy anything good to feel better about yourself.

          • Badi19

            Again I say, It is a Cult. Your shouting at me is not going to help you. Here is more for you.

            Based on “Combating Cult Mind Control” by Steven Hassan, here are the criteria for determining “cults”:

            http://bahaism.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/how-bahai-faith-is-cult.html

          • Donald Schellberg

            Actually, the Bahai Faith is probablly the least cult like of all the faiths. We are spread out pretty evenly over the globe. Most of the time we are in a non Bahai culture, at work school, activities. Typically a cult is just the opposite because it requires you to associate with like minded individuals, 24/7, who re-enforce a pattern of thought.

          • Badi19

            I think we should consider what “Steven Hassan” says. He is a licensed mental health counselor who has written extensively on the subject of cults.

            Again see this :
            http://bahaism.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/how-bahai-faith-is-cult.html

          • Donald Schellberg

            He might be licensed but he is ao far off base that he appears to have mental issues himself.

          • Badi19

            LOL.

            Here is one more for you. —–>

            I was raised in the Baha’i Faith. I left in my early 30’s. Recently I’ve been diagnosed with certain psychological effects of having been a member of a cult — mainly severe shame, anxiety, anger and anxiety. I’m looking for a psychotherapist who has experience with Baha’is, preferably
            located in the Denver/Boulder area of Colorado.

            Baha’i resembles a cult in many ways. I’ve studied cults and their mind control techniques.

            Information control – Baha’i is big on this. For example, making Baha’is afraid to listen to covenant breakers or read what they wrote. Baha’is are not trusted to make up their own minds and independent thinking is not allowed… plus there’s the right of review for published materials.

            Emotional control – Causing Baha’is to be afraid of breaking Baha’i law or any kind of disobedience.. and ostracizing them if they are imperfect, sanctioning them and excluding them.

            Thought control – Use of Baha’i prayerbook prayers instead of encouraging people to communicate directly with God. I believe God loves us and wants to have a conversation with us – not just listen to us read from books.

            I believe there are many elements of mind control in the Baha’i Faith. Even now, more than ten years after I left the religion, I still struggle to overcome the programming.

            Baha’u’llah also threatened those who leave the religion – a common cult practice. At the end of the Kitab-i-Iqan you’ll find this:

            “We conclude Our argument with His words—exalted is He—’And whoso shall withdraw from the remembrance of the Merciful, We will chain a Satan unto him, and he shall be his fast companion.’ ‘And whoso turneth away from My remembrance, truly his shall be a life of misery.’

            Of course Baha’is do not know they’re in a cult. They think they are superheroes in charge of saving the world!

            Baha’i faith has much in common with cults.

            Those willing to help may please visit the below link and help the “Cult Survivor”.

            http://redd.it/2d7fyq

          • naryan

            Ha, so I see, we’re not using dictionaries for definitions any more are we?
            The only definition that’s right is the one in the links you provide? 🙂
            Oh dear oh dear, this certainly isn’t looking healthy for you right now, is it?

            Information control
            “Baha’is are not trusted to make up their own minds and independent thinking is not allowed.”
            Not allowed is it? “Independent investigation of truth” being one of our key values? Did 20 years not get you that far?
            So what happens exactly if I have an independent thought, like I’ve been doing basically my whole life?
            The only people we’ve been warned about is people like you who are obviously mentally ill, your psychiatrist even told you so.
            Maybe you should be busy treating that instead of engaging in feeble attempts to destroy a peaceful religion on the internet?
            Here I am talking to you, a covenant breaker, right now, which according to you will get me excommunicated. So when will that happen exactly? I’d like to have that in my calendar. Give me a call just before it happens.

            “Emotional control – Causing Baha’is to be afraid of breaking Baha’i law or any kind of disobedience.. and ostracizing them if they are imperfect, sanctioning them and excluding them.”
            Basically what you’re saying here is that we have rules in our religion which we’re told we shouldn’t break. Which makes it just like every religion, or organisation, or country. If you can tell me a single difference in this regard between the Bahá’í Faith and Christianity or Islam I’d just *love* to hear it. Seriously. I’m waiting.
            If we’re being ostracised for being “imperfect,” that means we’re *all* being ostracised *all* the time. Which means there’s no one left to actually do the ostracising. So that argument doesn’t work so well either, does it? lol

            “Thought control – Use of Baha’i prayer book prayers instead of encouraging people to communicate directly with God. I believe God loves us and wants to have a conversation with us – not just listen to us read from books.”
            Again, this is just comical 🙂 “I believe God wants to have a conversation with us”.
            So what you’re saying is that you don’t like us because we don’t believe what you believe. You don’t like books and so our books make you so damn angry. How enlightened of you 🙂
            I guess the Lord’s Prayer is “thought control” as well, right?

            “Of course Baha’is do not know they’re in a cult. They think they are superheroes in charge of saving the world!”

            Well, you know, I try my best. I’m flattered you noticed.
            You’re right, we should all take advice from a professionally diagnosed mental patient, instead of peaceful people you yourself said want to save the world. Sounds legit.

          • Badi19

            LOL…..

            Baha’i’s cannot explain this issue. Not with even an iota of intellectual integrity at least, hence the avoidance.

            Because it is much easier to side step this issue than to face up to the unavoidable conclusions that a person must draw when this issue is dealt with face on.

            Because if this issue was not avoided then the issue of Abbas Effendi’s ( Abdu’l-Baha’s) and Mirz Husayn Ali’s ( Baha’u’llah’s) shunning of their own brothers and their brother’s families would have to be examined in the light of reason as well.

            This in the face of the fact that Mirza Husayn Ali (Baha’u’llah) supposedly had:
            “nullified and abolished” the practice of shunning: Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished.
            (Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 95)

            When these facts are examined in the light of reason, when these facts are examined using intellectual integrity it becomes very apparent that Mirza Husayn Ali, Abbas Effendi, as well as Shoghi Effendi were all quite obviously hypocrites; hypocrites who clearly did not practice what they preached; hypocrites who were only mummers of the teaching of the oneness of humanity; hypocrites who practiced it’s opposite: the division of humanity, even amongst their own family members.

            So much for the efficacy of the Baha’i faith to unify humanity.

            Yours
            Larry Rowe

          • naryan

            Avoiding what? You still haven’t actually told us what we’re avoiding. You keep talking about avoiding and side-stepping, when it’s *me* that’s sitting here asking for answers and you desperately trying to dodge.
            Or maybe you mean avoiding talking to aggressive and hateful covenant breakers like you? Well I’m here talking to you now but you don’t exactly have much to say. I personally don’t see what all the fuss is about, with the arguments you’ve cooked up here you couldn’t bring down a child never mind a global religion.
            There’s not a religion on earth that doesn’t warn about hanging around and talking to bad people. You haven’t addressed that issue either. Heck, any good parent would tell their children this. I asked you to tell me the difference between the Bahá’í Faith in this regard and other religions, and you haven’t done that either.
            So you agree with what Bahá’u’lláh says, but not what Shoghi Effendi says. That in itself shows who the hypocrite is here. I would argue about how covenant breakers don’t qualify as what Bahá’u’lláh calls the “children of men,” but that line of reasoning isn’t necessary, it’s even simpler than that. Simple enough that even you can’t refute it, and it goes thusly:
            Bahá’u’lláh gave his authority to ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, who gave it to Shoghi Effendi.
            Boom. Simple.
            To further clarify, you *cannot* believe in Bahá’u’lláh and not believe in Shoghi Effendi. It’s not logically possible.
            Therefore, you’re wrong. Now you know better.

          • Badi19

            LOL…..

            Baha’u’llah Refers to Those that Deny Him as Pigs, Donkeys, and Dogs

            http://www.bahaibahai.com/eng/index.php/articles?id=86

          • naryan

            And refers to people who believe and follow him as sheep, birds and flowers, basically the same as Jesus and Muhammad.
            What’s your point?
            And are you going to start every comment with “LOL…” because it’s making you look really immature. In case you didn’t know.

          • Badi19

            “Whoever denies this apparent exalted luminous grace (meaning Baha’ism), it is worthy that he asks his state from his mother and he will soon be returned to the bottom of hell,” `Abd al-Ḥamīd Ishrāq Khāwarī, Mā’idiy-i āsimānī, vol. 4, p. 355

            “Whoever has the enmity of this servant (meaning Bahā’u’llāh) in his heart, certainly Satan has entered their mother’s bed,” `Abd al-Ḥamīd Ishrāq Khāwarī, Ganj-i shāygān, p. 79.

          • naryan

            Are you just going to continue ignoring every one of my points? That’s like 10 separate points you’ve avoided now.
            I asked you why any of this is different from the Bible or the Qu’ran.
            This is the third time I’m asking you now.
            As for the quotes, they are not written by Bahá’u’lláh, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, or Shoghi Effendi.
            You’re perfectly aware of the controversy you’re trying to cause through implied misinformation.
            If it wasn’t before, I’ve just made it painfully clear what a disingenuous and untrustworthy person you are.

          • Badi19

            According to you Islam and Christianity are dead and rotten.

            “As for the quotes, they are not written by Bahá’u’lláh, ”
            You are a liar. Go and Check.
            Go and ask your Persian bosses.

          • naryan

            “According to you Islam and Christianity are dead and rotten.”
            lol, more straight up lies then is it? Can’t deal with what I’m actually saying so trying to force words into my mouth.
            You’re all washed up sunshine. Dead in the water.
            I just about done dismantling you. There’s nothing left to expose.
            Have fun with your angry little life full of denial and hatred 😉

          • Badi19

            Hahaha….

            I enjoyed too.

            You people are the greatest hypocrites on this earth. The more I talk to people like you the more energy I get.

            So blatantly you said “they are not written by Bahá’u’lláh”

            Go and check this and ask your Persian Bosses who has written it. Here is the link :
            http://reference.bahai.org/fa/t/b/MAS4/mas4-355.html

            After this I am going to take you towards the Will and Testament of Baha’u’llah, then Will and Testament of Abdul Baha, then Shoghi Effendi’s sudden death, then dispute over guardianship, then hijacking the Baha’i cult by abandoning the guardianship.

            Have a good day and keep yourself busy in 4 core activities. Lol….

          • naryan

            Didn’t read it.
            You physically can’t address a single point put to you. This isn’t even an argument, it’s pitiful.
            I’m done with reading your vacuous deflections. The next message won’t make it to my inbox.
            You’re just a petty child, looking for attention.

            Run along junior.

          • Badi19

            The Bāb, Farsi Bayān: “Chapter six of the sixth unit which is about destroying all books but those that have been written or will be written about this order (meaning the Bab’s creed)”; “The utterance of the [book or religion] of Bayān in the day of the appearance of his Highness A`lā (meaning the Bāb) was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bāb’s religion] and verified it,” `Abdu’l-Bahā, Makātīb (Egypt: 1330 AH), vol. 2, p. 266.

          • Badi19

            Bye….

          • Dawnbreaking

            Baha’ism isn’t monotheistic. Their leader Baha’u’llah claims he is God and creator of God’s, complete polytheists in my opinion. According to Abdu’l-Baha his father used to say:
            “All Gods became Gods
            from the flow of my affairs and all Lords became Lords by the overflowing of my
            decree,” Abdu’l-Baha, Makatib, vol. 2, p. 255.

        • SirTerrance Murphy

          Stop spreading lies we are not a cult

          • Badi19

            Bahaism a Cult and it has many sects and divisions.

            Visit this link, This is a different link posted only for you. Read and come back.

            http://bahaism.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/the-oneness-of-humanity-in-bahai-faith.html

          • naryan

            Lol, I’m not shouting darling, I’m calmly and systematically dissecting you as you’re well aware. And if I were shouting you wouldn’t know. But you’re not beyond claiming “fact” status for things you don’t know, are you?
            What I’m doing is asking the most fundamental questions necessary to ascertain the credibility of your claims, and all you can do is desperately deflect my simple requests over and over and over with links to the same page.
            You can’t even answer the question of what a cult *is* without deflecting to your own private definition.
            I think the Google dictionary will do just fine, thanks:
            “A system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object.”
            Oh and would you look at that, we don’t worship figures or objects, ergo, the Bahá’í Faith is not a cult.

            You are hereby educated.

          • Badi19

            My dear. Please visit the link that has been provided. You will find your answer. The cult definition is not given by me but by Steven Alan Hassan who is a licensed mental health counselor and has written extensively on the subject of cults.

            Please do visit the link and read it yourself. All the definitions fit exactly on your CULT.

            Again here is the link for your kind reference :
            http://bahaism.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/how-bahai-faith-is-cult.html

          • Badi19

            This is what one of my Ex-Baha’i friend feels about your CULT.

            Read it please :

            My personal experience of deprogramming from the Baha’i World Faith taught me more about myself, and humanity than I’d learned in my 45 years of being a Baha’i. Why? Because when I was a Baha’i I was right, my religion was right, there was no need for me to question anything. My independent search for the truth had ended and I had found my pie in the sky; well actually I had been indoctrinated into that way of seeing the world, of seeing myself. Seeing myself and my religion as the answer to all the worlds problems, if only they’d believe. It took several years of seeing the many clear contradictions in the Baha’i Faith, the many clear contradictions in the Baha’i writings, before I finally began to wake up from my indoctrinated slumber, before I stopped blaming myself for seeing all those clear contractions. When I now contemplate such things as the Baha’i World Faith’s National Spiritual Assembly of the USA taking the Orthodox Baha’i Faith to court in an attempt to prevent Orthodox Baha’is from calling themselves Baha’is, from using Baha’i terminology in their religion, I can clearly see that the judge in the case didn’t error in ruling against the Baha’i World Faith, as well that he was right on to reprimand the National Spiritual Assembly of the USA for their attempt to quash the religious rights and freedoms of others. I also realized that this sort of religious thinking is the Most Great Divisiveness and is unworthy of a religion which supposedly has as it’s pivot the teaching of the oneness of humanity. I’ve come to see that the actual pivot of the Baha’i World Faith is not an inclusive and true oneness of humanity but an exclusive oneness of Baha’iness, a false oneness based on the belief that all of humanity needs to believe as we Baha’is believe.

            Cheers
            Larry Rowe

          • Dawnbreaking

            “A system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object.”

            Exactly fits the Baha’i cult. The particular figure and object being first Baha’u’llah and now the UHJ.

  • Donald Schellberg

    It was interesting that the Minister included the Baha’is. Baha’is obey all the laws of the land in which they reside. Despite 150 years of persecution in Iran, the Bahais of that country have continued to follow the laws of that country and are completely non-violent. In an area of the world plagued by sectarian fueled violence, this should be a model worthy to follow. Furthermore, the Baha’i Faith has very close roots to Islam. I was raised a Roman Catholic but when I accepted the Baha’i Faith I also accepted Mohammed as a Prophet of God and the Koran as the Word of God. This was very difficult for me to do, given my culture and upbringing. And Baha’is recognize Mohammed as the Seal of the Prophets(Nabi) as well. We don’t see Baha’u’llah as a Prophet(one who prophecies) because mankind is entering a new era of its existence. Can anyone who has witnessed the dramatic political, social, and technical
    changes of the last 150 years seriously deny that. The word Baha is never used in the Holy Koran and yet the Bible contains the word Glory thousands of times. That, in itself, should cause one to wonder(hint, 99 names of God). Furthermore, I spend a lot of time in the US defending Islam to my family, my friends and co-workers. My fellow Baha’is in the US do as well. So I don’t know why anyone should worry about a few thousand Baha’is in your country, they are a peaceful force for good in a violent world. I would welcome them with open arms as I welcome my Moslem brothers and sisters in my country.

  • Marco Oliveira

    The harassment ofsocial or religious minorities is a typical act of Middle Age mentality. I hope Egypt does not make such a mistake.

  • Pingback: Egyptian government to confront ‘threats of atheists, Bahais and Shiites’ | Sen's daily()

  • Commander_Chico

    Good point in the last paragraph. Nobody wants to be imprisoned because of eavesdroppers’ good or bad understanding of English.

  • Pingback: News: 18-Apr-15 | Serat Online()

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@KariMegeed

An avid traveller, photographer, and culture aficionado who received her sciences degree in Anthropology from Loyola University Chicago, Kari is currently devoting her time to Egyptian Streets, in addition to launching her travel magazine, Le Voyageur.

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